With this beer, I'm going for a lacto-only sour ale (not a Berliner Weisse), similar to many beers made by Cascade Brewing of Portland, OR. Couldn't find a good clone recipe, though, so I just winged it. There are countless methods for creating sour ales, and after consulting with homebrewers in my club, reading the recently released American Sour Ales book and many threads online, I have decided to keep things relatively simple and easy: 90-minute mash at 155 F. 90-minute boil. Chill wort. Pitch yeast and lacto (special-order Brevis variety) at the same time. Brew day (7/15/14) notes: Divided the 7.75-gallon boil into three pots (I don't have a 10-gallon pot, and I brew in the kitchen). Unfortunately, I didn't get as much vapor loss as expected, so I ended up with almost 6 gallons at the end of the 90 minutes. I didn't want to boil longer because I didn't want any additional IBUs. I only filled the fermenter to 5 gallons, though. OG = 1.050. 7/29/14 I transferred this beer into a secondary (racked it onto 1 ounce of French medium roast oak cubes). 9/22/14: Transferred to tertiary and added 3.5 lbs of pluots. Bottled on 3/17/15 (primed with 2/3 cup corn sugar). FG = 1.005
Fermentables
70% - Pilsner - DE
10
38
1
Mash
21% - Wheat Malt - DE
3
37
2
Mash
4% - Vienna - DE
0.5
37
4
Mash
5% - Acidulated Malt - DE
0.75
27
3
Mash
Hops
Perle
0.5
Pellet
Boil
60 min(s)
7.8
11.4
Yeast
Wyeast British Ale 1098
74%
Other Stuff
Wyeast Lactobacillus Brevis 5223
1
each
Boil
Mash Steps
No mash steps in this recipe
Special Instructions
No special instructions in this recipe
Tasting Notes (0)
There aren't any tasting notes logged yet
Comments
Great notes man... how did it turn out?
6/1/2016 5:56:37 AM
Thanks! The beer turned out really well, especially after aging in bottles for 6 months, though I wish it had more acidity. I should have either kettle soured it or aged it longer. I also would add more fruit next time; maybe twice as much. My sour ales #5 & #6 turned out much better, btw.
6/1/2016 8:33:53 AM
So Lactobacillus was used in boil, if so would you recommend at the 90 min mark?
2/1/2018 5:10:33 PM
TheGUdBrew, no. I pitched Lactobacillus Brevis after the kettle boil (and after chilling), along with the ale yeast. This beer was not a kettle sour. One additional note: After about a year of aging in the bottle, the acidity did increase a bit, but not as much as I hoped. Had I aged it longer in the fermenter, maybe the lacto would have had enough time to sour it up more.
2/1/2018 5:52:29 PM
Aubrey, how long did you have fermenting before bottling. I could try to keep it in there longer to see. This recipe looks great! I cloned it but I plan to use Nelson Sauvin Hops instead of Perle
2/1/2018 7:01:50 PM
I did a kettle sour for three days with lactose. Put NO hops in. Let beer sour for three days. Reboil beer for 60 minutes with hops, then chill and add yeast. Beer was plenty sour and tasted great after 4 weeks aging.Check out my recipe Heidis evil twin.
2/2/2018 5:43:06 AM
TheGUdBrew, it was in fermentation vessels for about 8 months. This was one of my earliest sour ales (I've done many traditional/aged sours and kettle sours since then). With the former, I've found they need much more time in order to boost the sourness (usually at least a year or more) ... and as aggressive as L. Brevis is, Pediococcus can really take things up a notch. But if you use Pedio, you must add Brettanomyces so that it cleans up Pedio's negative byproducts.
2/2/2018 8:24:59 AM
Brewdog333, I've also had great results with kettle sours. They do come off a bit one-dimensional, but they're perfect for Berliner weisses, goses, and various fruited sours. Speaking of which, I just wrote about my kettle sour process here, if you're interested: http://www.taptrail.com/homebrew-diaries-making-a-kettle-soured-beer/
2/2/2018 8:26:44 AM
TheGudBrew, one thing to note about this recipe is that I batch sparged, so my efficiency was much lower than 75%, though it's reflected in my notes (i.e., my OG and FG and batch size). Also, I think I isomerized too many IBUs, which might've been what inhibited the lactic acid production. Like I said, this was one of my earliest sours, so I was still learning. Now, when I make kettle sours, I don't add any hops until the post-souring boil (see my process in the link). And if I'm doing a long-aged sour, I keep IBUs really low, like in the single digits. That said, some bacteria is more tolerant to IBUs than others. Pedio is pretty tolerant. L. Plantarum can't handle more than a few.
2/2/2018 8:33:58 AM
Yes my kettle sour made a great Berliner weisse. My best yet.Currently I have a Belgian cherry sour in the works, and will bottle tomorrow.I also batch spare, so my numbers are always off. I brew strictly for taste. Don't let the numbers discourage you, the beers I make are better than the beers I buy. Cheers
{"RecipeId":4396,"RecipeTypeId":10,"OriginalRecipeId":null,"UnitType":"s","IbuFormula":"t","CreatedBy":100026,"Name":"LACTO LOVE - Lacto-Only Sour Ale - No. 3","Description":"With this beer, I\u0027m going for a lacto-only sour ale (not a Berliner Weisse), similar to many beers made by Cascade Brewing of Portland, OR. Couldn\u0027t find a good clone recipe, though, so I just winged it. There are countless methods for creating sour ales, and after consulting with homebrewers in my club, reading the recently released American Sour Ales book and many threads online, I have decided to keep things relatively simple and easy: 90-minute mash at 155 F. 90-minute boil. Chill wort. Pitch yeast and lacto (special-order Brevis variety) at the same time. Brew day (7/15/14) notes: Divided the 7.75-gallon boil into three pots (I don\u0027t have a 10-gallon pot, and I brew in the kitchen). Unfortunately, I didn\u0027t get as much vapor loss as expected, so I ended up with almost 6 gallons at the end of the 90 minutes. I didn\u0027t want to boil longer because I didn\u0027t want any additional IBUs. I only filled the fermenter to 5 gallons, though. OG = 1.050. 7/29/14 I transferred this beer into a secondary (racked it onto 1 ounce of French medium roast oak cubes). 9/22/14: Transferred to tertiary and added 3.5 lbs of pluots. Bottled on 3/17/15 (primed with 2/3 cup corn sugar). FG = 1.005","ImageUrlRoot":"/img/r/3e/3e465704-4664-4ed0-8356-ea536165e37d","StyleId":"23F","StyleName":"Fruit Lambic","BatchSize":5,"BoilSize":7.75,"BoilTime":90,"Efficiency":0.75,"DateCreated":"\/Date(1405445625597)\/","BrewSessionCount":0,"MostRecentBrewSession":null,"Og":1.0794625,"Fg":1.02066025,"Srm":3.9113820144568034,"Ibu":11.375075325244744,"BgGu":0.14315023218807293,"Abv":7.58549025,"Calories":274,"AverageRating":0,"TastingNoteCount":0,"Fermentables":[{"Per":"70","Amt":"10","Ppg":"38","L":"1","Use":"Mash","Id":"18146","IngId":"575","Name":"Pilsner - DE","CustomName":"","Rank":"1"},{"Per":"21","Amt":"3","Ppg":"37","L":"2","Use":"Mash","Id":"18147","IngId":"590","Name":"Wheat Malt - DE","CustomName":"","Rank":"2"},{"Per":"4","Amt":"0.5","Ppg":"37","L":"4","Use":"Mash","Id":"18148","IngId":"588","Name":"Vienna - DE","CustomName":"","Rank":"3"},{"Per":"5","Amt":"0.75","Ppg":"27","L":"3","Use":"Mash","Id":"18149","IngId":"474","Name":"Acidulated Malt - DE\r","CustomName":"","Rank":"4"}],"Hops":[{"Amt":"0.5","Type":"Pellet","Use":"Boil","Min":"60","Day":"0","AA":"7.8","Ibu":"11.3750753252447","Id":"16693","IngId":"26","Name":"Perle ","CustomName":"","Rank":"1"}],"Yeasts":[{"Atten":"0.74","Id":"5497","IngId":"212","Name":"Wyeast British Ale 1098","CustomName":"","Rank":"1"}],"Others":[{"Amt":"1","Unit":"each","Use":"Boil","Id":"3082","IngId":"612","Name":"Wyeast Lactobacillus Brevis 5223","CustomName":"","Rank":"1"}],"MashSteps":[],"Steps":[]}
https://brewgr.com/Media/img/r/3e/3e465704-4664-4ed0-8356-ea536165e37d_d.jpg
https://brewgr.com/Media/img/r/3e/3e465704-4664-4ed0-8356-ea536165e37d_t.jpg
Great notes man... how did it turn out?
6/1/2016 5:56:37 AMThanks! The beer turned out really well, especially after aging in bottles for 6 months, though I wish it had more acidity. I should have either kettle soured it or aged it longer. I also would add more fruit next time; maybe twice as much. My sour ales #5 & #6 turned out much better, btw.
6/1/2016 8:33:53 AMSo Lactobacillus was used in boil, if so would you recommend at the 90 min mark?
2/1/2018 5:10:33 PMTheGUdBrew, no. I pitched Lactobacillus Brevis after the kettle boil (and after chilling), along with the ale yeast. This beer was not a kettle sour. One additional note: After about a year of aging in the bottle, the acidity did increase a bit, but not as much as I hoped. Had I aged it longer in the fermenter, maybe the lacto would have had enough time to sour it up more.
2/1/2018 5:52:29 PMAubrey, how long did you have fermenting before bottling. I could try to keep it in there longer to see. This recipe looks great! I cloned it but I plan to use Nelson Sauvin Hops instead of Perle
2/1/2018 7:01:50 PMI did a kettle sour for three days with lactose. Put NO hops in. Let beer sour for three days. Reboil beer for 60 minutes with hops, then chill and add yeast. Beer was plenty sour and tasted great after 4 weeks aging.Check out my recipe Heidis evil twin.
2/2/2018 5:43:06 AMTheGUdBrew, it was in fermentation vessels for about 8 months. This was one of my earliest sour ales (I've done many traditional/aged sours and kettle sours since then). With the former, I've found they need much more time in order to boost the sourness (usually at least a year or more) ... and as aggressive as L. Brevis is, Pediococcus can really take things up a notch. But if you use Pedio, you must add Brettanomyces so that it cleans up Pedio's negative byproducts.
2/2/2018 8:24:59 AMBrewdog333, I've also had great results with kettle sours. They do come off a bit one-dimensional, but they're perfect for Berliner weisses, goses, and various fruited sours. Speaking of which, I just wrote about my kettle sour process here, if you're interested: http://www.taptrail.com/homebrew-diaries-making-a-kettle-soured-beer/
2/2/2018 8:26:44 AMTheGudBrew, one thing to note about this recipe is that I batch sparged, so my efficiency was much lower than 75%, though it's reflected in my notes (i.e., my OG and FG and batch size). Also, I think I isomerized too many IBUs, which might've been what inhibited the lactic acid production. Like I said, this was one of my earliest sours, so I was still learning. Now, when I make kettle sours, I don't add any hops until the post-souring boil (see my process in the link). And if I'm doing a long-aged sour, I keep IBUs really low, like in the single digits. That said, some bacteria is more tolerant to IBUs than others. Pedio is pretty tolerant. L. Plantarum can't handle more than a few.
2/2/2018 8:33:58 AMYes my kettle sour made a great Berliner weisse. My best yet.Currently I have a Belgian cherry sour in the works, and will bottle tomorrow.I also batch spare, so my numbers are always off. I brew strictly for taste. Don't let the numbers discourage you, the beers I make are better than the beers I buy. Cheers
2/2/2018 2:29:59 PM